# Toxic Chat > A rare in-person meeting in Silicon Valley uncovers the truth behind weaponized Twitter GIFs, Uber’s regulatory evasion tactics, and the media’s tax return obsession. - **Show:** [The No Agenda Show](https://search.noagendashow.net/index.md) - **Episode:** 913 - **Published:** 2017-03-19 - **Length:** 2h 43m - **Topics:** [GCHQ](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/gchq.md), Grayball, [Mosul](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/mosul.md), [Vault 7](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/vault-7.md), [Five Eyes](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/five-eyes.md), [Donna Brazile](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/donna-brazile.md) - **Web page:** https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat ## About this episode Adam Curry and John C. Dvorak reunite in person for the first time in two years, broadcasting from a mansion in Silicon Valley to analyze the escalating military buildup in the Middle East. Tensions between Israel and Syria have reached a breaking point following the deployment of Arrow anti-missile technology, while a surge of U.S. troops into Kuwait signals a potential shift in operations across Iraq and Afghanistan. The hosts contrast the muted media response to civilian casualties in Mosul with the previous international outcry over the siege of Aleppo. In Washington, Senators Lindsey Graham and Patrick Leahy lead a committee hearing on Russian election interference, proposing that cyberattacks on political parties be treated as a violation of NATO's Article 5. Former DNC chair Donna Brazile characterized the hacking of the Democratic National Committee as a physical military invasion during an appearance on The Daily Show, despite a lack of evidence regarding her claims of staff harassment. Meanwhile, the White House and GCHQ are locked in a rare public dispute after President Trump cited reports that British intelligence assisted the Obama administration in wiretapping Trump Tower, a claim the agency labeled as utterly ridiculous. Cultural and technical segments highlight the arrest of a man for sending a weaponized strobe GIF to Newsweek reporter Kurt Eichenwald and the discovery of Uber’s Grayball software used to evade government regulators. Adam Curry recounts a bizarre incident in Holland where soul singer Percy Sledge nearly caught fire under stage lights, while John C. Dvorak details his failed attempts to bypass facial recognition systems in Portugal. The show concludes with a critique of Rachel Maddow’s release of Donald Trump’s 2005 tax returns, which revealed a thirty-eight million dollar tax payment that contradicted years of media speculation. ## Chapters Each chapter's transcript is at its own link. The whole transcript is at https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/transcript.md. ### 1. Adam Curry and John C. Dvorak Meet in Silicon Valley (0:00–9:19) Adam Curry and John C. Dvorak open the show from a location in southern Silicon Valley, marking their first in-person meeting in over two years. They discuss the social dynamics of a recent "meet-and-greet" event held at a local mansion, including interactions with listeners and the hosts' differing personal styles. The segment references the origins of their 9:00 a.m. recording time and addresses a joke comparing Curry's role in inventing podcasting to Al Gore's claims regarding the internet. Keywords: [adam curry](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/adam-curry.md), [john c. dvorak](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/john-c-dvorak.md), [silicon valley](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/silicon-valley.md), [los gatos](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/los-gatos.md), [podcasting](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/podcasting.md), [al gore](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/al-gore.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/1.md) ### 2. Middle East Military Buildup and Mosul Civilian Casualties (9:19–18:22) Military sources report a significant buildup of U.S. troops in Kuwait, potentially for operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria. Tensions are rising between Israel and Syria following the use of Arrow anti-missile technology against Syrian surface-to-air missiles. The discussion critiques the State Department's lack of visibility regarding civilian deaths in Mosul, comparing the media's muted response to the heavy coverage previously seen during the siege of Aleppo. Keywords: [mosul](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/mosul.md), [aleppo](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/aleppo.md), [syria](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/syria.md), [israel](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/israel.md), [state department](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/state-department.md), [civilian casualties](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/civilian-casualties.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/2.md) ### 3. Lindsey Graham and Patrick Leahy Discuss Russian Election Influence (18:23–24:59) Senators Lindsey Graham and Patrick Leahy lead a committee hearing regarding Russian influence in global democracies and the 2016 U.S. election. Graham suggests that an attack on a political party by a foreign entity should trigger a response similar to NATO's Article 5. The hosts criticize the senators' rhetoric, specifically mocking the inclusion of North Korea and Iran as potential future threats to democratic election systems. Keywords: [lindsey graham](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/lindsey-graham.md), [patrick leahy](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/patrick-leahy.md), [nato](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/nato.md), [russia](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/russia.md), [election interference](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/election-interference.md), [article 5](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/article-5.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/3.md) ### 4. Donna Brazile Claims Russian Invasion of DNC (24:59–29:48) Former DNC acting chair Donna Brazile appeared on The Daily Show, describing the Russian hacking of the DNC as a military invasion. She claimed that hostile forces harassed donors and staff, though the hosts note a lack of supporting evidence for these specific claims of physical harassment. The segment highlights Brazile's admission regarding the leaking of town hall questions to the Hillary Clinton campaign. Keywords: [donna brazile](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/donna-brazile.md), [dnc](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/dnc.md), [russia](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/russia.md), [the daily show](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/the-daily-show.md), [cnn](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/cnn.md), election hack [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/4.md) ### 5. Jesse Williams Praises Barack Obama's Speechwriting Intellect (29:51–34:55) Actor and activist Jesse Williams appeared on CBS This Morning to discuss a documentary about Barack Obama, praising the former president's "intellectual heft" and teaching style. Williams argues that Obama's connectivity and vocabulary were essential to his communication success. The hosts characterize the interview as an example of "Dimension B" media worship and contrast it with the communication style of Donald Trump. Keywords: jesse williams, [barack obama](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/barack-obama.md), [cbs this morning](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/cbs-this-morning.md), [speechwriting](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/speechwriting.md), intellect [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/5.md) ### 6. Donald Trump and Angela Merkel White House Meeting (34:56–44:48) Chancellor Angela Merkel visited the White House for talks with President Donald Trump regarding NATO spending, terrorism, and trade. Media coverage focused heavily on a perceived "handshake snub" in the Oval Office, which the hosts argue was a manufactured controversy by reporters. Trump reiterated his stance that Germany must increase its defense spending and clarified that he is a "fair trader" rather than an isolationist. Keywords: [angela merkel](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/angela-merkel.md), [donald trump](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/donald-trump.md), [nato](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/nato.md), [trade](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/trade.md), [handshake](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/handshake.md), [germany](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/germany.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/6.md) ### 7. Deutsche Welle G20 Report and Helena's Presentation Style (44:48–49:54) A report from Deutsche Welle regarding the G20 finance ministers' meeting in Baden-Baden is analyzed, focusing on the presentation style of business reporter Helena. The segment discusses the U.S. efforts to remove references to "protectionism" and "climate change" from the official communique. The hosts digress into a detailed critique of the reporter's wardrobe and camera blocking during the broadcast. Keywords: [deutsche welle](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/deutsche-welle.md), [g20](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/g20.md), [protectionism](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/protectionism.md), baden-baden, helena, [fashion](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/fashion.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/7.md) ### 8. Judy Woodruff's Accidental Pun Regarding the Fuhrer (49:55–52:15) During a PBS NewsHour broadcast, anchor Judy Woodruff made a phonetic slip while discussing President Trump's dismissal of the wiretapping controversy. The hosts highlight the moment where she appeared to say the president "dismissed the Fuhrer" while transitioning from a story about German Chancellor Angela Merkel. They debate whether the phrasing was a subconscious slip or an intentional pun by the scriptwriters. Keywords: [judy woodruff](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/judy-woodruff.md), [pbs](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/pbs.md), [angela merkel](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/angela-merkel.md), pun, [wiretapping](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/wiretapping.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/8.md) ### 9. GCHQ Wiretapping Allegations and Five Eyes Agreement (52:15–1:00:11) The White House cited a Fox News report by Judge Andrew Napolitano claiming that British intelligence agency GCHQ assisted the Obama administration in surveilling Donald Trump. GCHQ issued a rare public rebuke, calling the allegations "utterly ridiculous." The hosts discuss the "Five Eyes" intelligence-sharing agreement, suggesting that while direct spying might be illegal, agencies often circumvent domestic laws by exchanging data with foreign partners. Keywords: [gchq](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/gchq.md), [andrew napolitano](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/andrew-napolitano.md), [sean spicer](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/sean-spicer.md), [shepard smith](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/shepard-smith.md), [five eyes](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/five-eyes.md), [wiretapping](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/wiretapping.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/9.md) ### 10. Executive Producer Credits and Bill Nye Endorsements (1:00:14–1:10:13) The hosts acknowledge top donors and executive producers, including Sir Michael Haffley and Richard G. Ballard. They discuss Bill Nye "The Science Guy," criticizing his recent commercial endorsements as a sign that his climate change advocacy is no longer lucrative. The segment also touches on a listener's theory regarding James Comey's handling of the Clinton email investigation and the potential use of "Vault 7" tools. Keywords: [bill nye](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/bill-nye.md), [climate change](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/climate-change.md), [donations](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/donations.md), [karma](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/karma.md), [knighthood](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/knighthood.md), [james comey](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/james-comey.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/10.md) ### 11. Robert Reich's Verbal Slip Regarding Budget Cuts (1:10:14–1:14:43) Former Labor Secretary Robert Reich criticized the Trump administration's proposed budget increases for the military and homeland security. During a commentary on the "unprecedented cuts" required to fund these increases, Reich suffered a notable verbal slip, accidentally using an obscenity. The hosts mock the error as a "butt slam" and an indication of Reich's internal frustration with the administration. Keywords: [robert reich](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/robert-reich.md), [budget](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/budget.md), [military spending](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/military-spending.md), [verbal slip](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/verbal-slip.md), [dimension b](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/dimension-b.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/11.md) ### 12. American Idioms and Linguistic History Segment (1:14:44–1:26:03) Using a book titled "Why You Say It" by Webbe Garrison, the hosts explore the origins of various American idioms and phrases submitted by listeners. They discuss the etymology of "high horse," "Jiminy Crickets," and "deader than Kelsey's nuts." The segment aims to identify "cool" old phrases that should be reintroduced into modern conversation while rejecting clichés like "children should be seen and not heard." Keywords: [idioms](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/idioms.md), [etymology](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/etymology.md), high horse, jiminy crickets, horse feathers, webbe garrison [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/12.md) ### 13. Don Lemon and the Blacktabox Debate on Budget (1:26:04–1:35:37) CNN's Don Lemon hosted a panel of eight African American commentators, dubbed a "blacktabox" by the hosts, to discuss the impact of Trump's budget on urban areas. The debate centered on cuts to the Department of Education and HUD versus the preservation of funding for Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs). Lemon argued that basic needs like food and housing are more critical than college funding, leading to a heated exchange with panelist Paris Dennard. Keywords: [don lemon](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/don-lemon.md), [cnn](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/cnn.md), [budget cuts](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/budget-cuts.md), [hbcu](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/hbcu.md), [urban development](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/urban-development.md), blacktabox [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/13.md) ### 14. The View Debates PBS and NPR Funding (1:35:37–1:46:53) The hosts of The View engaged in a loud debate regarding the defunding of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Conservative panelists argued that government funding makes up a tiny fraction of the budgets for NPR and PBS, while Whoopi Goldberg and Joy Behar expressed concern for programs like Meals on Wheels. The segment notes that Sesame Street has moved to HBO and questions why wealthy celebrities demand government subsidies for arts programs. Keywords: [the view](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/the-view.md), [pbs](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/pbs.md), [npr](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/npr.md), [sesame street](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/sesame-street.md), [funding](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/funding.md), [whoopi goldberg](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/whoopi-goldberg.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/14.md) ### 15. Nancy Pelosi Critiques Bannon's Deconstruction of Government (1:46:54–1:52:43) House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi criticized the Trump administration's "systemic deconstruction" of the federal government, a term the hosts link to Steve Bannon's stated goals. Pelosi expressed concern that infrastructure plans might be tax breaks for the rich disguised as public-private partnerships. The hosts counter by pointing out that Pelosi's home district of San Francisco already utilizes tolls and fees for government-built infrastructure like the Golden Gate Bridge. Keywords: [nancy pelosi](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/nancy-pelosi.md), [steve bannon](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/steve-bannon.md), [deconstruction](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/deconstruction.md), [medicare](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/medicare.md), [infrastructure](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/infrastructure.md), [tolls](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/tolls.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/15.md) ### 16. Mick Mulvaney Defends Defunding Climate Research and CPB (1:52:47–1:56:28) White House OMB Director Mick Mulvaney defended the administration's decision to stop spending taxpayer money on climate change research, calling it a "waste of your money." He argued that it is difficult to justify taking money from working-class families in the Midwest to fund the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. The hosts agree with the sentiment, suggesting that these organizations are "drinking clubs" that can survive without federal assistance. Keywords: [mick mulvaney](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/mick-mulvaney.md), [omb](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/omb.md), [climate change](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/climate-change.md), [cpb](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/cpb.md), [budget](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/budget.md), [taxpayers](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/taxpayers.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/16.md) ### 17. Associate Executive Producer Credits and Birthday Shoutouts (1:56:28–2:04:49) The hosts read the second list of donors and associate executive producers, including Derek Adams-White from Queensland and RC Mouse from Vista, California. They provide birthday shoutouts for listeners' family members and discuss the merits of open-source software like LibreOffice. The segment concludes with the official "knighting" and title upgrade of Sir Michael Haffley to Baronet of the Internet. Keywords: [donations](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/donations.md), [australia](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/australia.md), [birthday](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/birthday.md), [karma](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/karma.md), [open source](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/open-source.md), [peerage](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/peerage.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/17.md) ### 18. Percy Sledge and the Smoking Hair Incident (2:04:52–2:07:21) Adam Curry shares a personal anecdote from a radio event in Holland involving soul singer Percy Sledge. During a performance of "When a Man Loves a Woman," Sledge stood directly under high-wattage stage lights, causing his "jerry curl" hair products to begin smoking. Curry describes intervening to move the singer away from the lights to prevent him from catching fire. Keywords: percy sledge, jerry curl, [holland](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/holland.md), [concert](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/concert.md), [anecdote](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/anecdote.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/18.md) ### 19. Kurt Eichenwald and the Weaponized Twitter GIF (2:07:22–2:18:04) The FBI arrested a man for sending a flashing strobe GIF to Newsweek reporter Kurt Eichenwald, which allegedly triggered an epileptic seizure. The hosts discuss the legal implications of "weaponized tweets" and whether digital content can be classified as a physical attack. The segment also covers new draft laws in Germany that would fine social media companies for failing to remove "hate speech" and "toxic chat" within 24 hours. Keywords: [kurt eichenwald](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/kurt-eichenwald.md), [twitter](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/twitter.md), [epilepsy](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/epilepsy.md), [fbi](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/fbi.md), [hate speech](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/hate-speech.md), [germany](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/germany.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/19.md) ### 20. Uber's Grayball Software and Regulatory Avoidance (2:18:06–2:21:45) Uber admitted to using a secret software program called "Grayball" to identify and evade government officials conducting sting operations in cities where the service was restricted. The software used geofencing around government offices and analyzed credit card data to serve a fake version of the app with "ghost cars" to regulators. The hosts discuss the ethics of the program and Uber's ongoing legal and PR challenges. Keywords: [uber](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/uber.md), grayball, [geofencing](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/geofencing.md), [sting operations](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/sting-operations.md), travis kalanick [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/20.md) ### 21. Secret Service Laptop Theft and White House Intruder (2:21:46–2:27:27) A Secret Service agent's laptop containing sensitive information about Trump Tower and Hillary Clinton was stolen from a vehicle in Brooklyn. The theft occurred shortly after an intruder, Jonathan Tran, spent 17 minutes roaming the White House grounds undetected. The hosts emphasize the importance of stolen lapel pins, which are used as daily security identifiers, and critique the recurring lapses in Secret Service protection. Keywords: [secret service](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/secret-service.md), laptop theft, [brooklyn](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/brooklyn.md), [white house](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/white-house.md), [security breach](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/security-breach.md), jonathan tran [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/21.md) ### 22. Rachel Maddow and the Trump Tax Return Compilation (2:27:28–2:30:58) The hosts play a compilation from the Media Research Center showing various media figures confidently asserting for years that Donald Trump paid no federal income taxes. This follows Rachel Maddow's broadcast of two pages from Trump's 2005 tax return, which showed he paid $38 million in taxes that year. The hosts mock the media's "Dimension B" certainty and discuss Trump's methods for concealing his physical weight. Keywords: [rachel maddow](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/rachel-maddow.md), [donald trump](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/donald-trump.md), [tax returns](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/tax-returns.md), [media research center](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/media-research-center.md), [compilation](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/compilation.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/22.md) ### 23. Facial Recognition Technology and Final Sign-off (2:30:59–2:43:34) The show concludes with a discussion on the rapid advancement of facial recognition technology being tested by Eurostar and the FBI. John Dvorak recounts a personal experience in Portugal where he was unable to "beat" a facial recognition system despite making faces and wearing hats. The hosts propose a "Turing test" for the software using old photos of Rachel Maddow before signing off from Silicon Valley. Keywords: [facial recognition](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/facial-recognition.md), [fbi](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/fbi.md), [eurostar](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/eurostar.md), [rachel maddow](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/rachel-maddow.md), [turing test](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/turing-test.md), [silicon valley](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/silicon-valley.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/913-toxic-chat/chapter/23.md) - [Previous episode](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/912-bully-box.md) - [Next episode](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/914-fack-base.md) --- This is the markdown version of a page on The No Agenda Show for AI agents. 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