# Understanding No Agenda > The pioneers of independent podcasting reveal the technical secrets and psychological hurdles behind building a media empire funded entirely by its audience without a single advertiser. - **Show:** [The No Agenda Show](https://search.noagendashow.net/index.md) - **Episode:** 425 - **Published:** 2012-07-12 - **Length:** 2h 10m - **Topics:** [Value for Value](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/value-for-value.md), [Media Deconstruction](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/media-deconstruction.md), CNET Origins, Radio Craft, Crackpot Shield, NANN, [C-SPAN](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/c-span.md) - **Web page:** https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda ## About this episode Adam Curry and John C. Dvorak mark the 425th episode of No Agenda with a retrospective analysis of the show's evolution from its 2007 London origins to a leading force in media deconstruction. The hosts recount their 1993 meeting at CNET and Curry’s decision to decline millions in stock to remain at MTV, a move that eventually led to the creation of their independent "Value for Value" funding model. This special broadcast examines the transition from casual financial commentary to a rigorous five-hour weekly deconstruction of global news cycles. Curry and Dvorak detail their rejection of traditional advertising, citing the editorial compromises required by corporate giants like Monsanto and Archer Daniels Midland. They instead utilize a public service model inspired by PBS and the psychological dynamics of church fundraising to maintain total independence. The recap covers Dvorak's advocacy for high-fidelity audio based on MIT Media Lab research, the influence of a Family Guy parody on their "In the Morning" branding, and the development of the No Agenda News Network. Specific insights include Dvorak’s use of the MMPI personality test to define his role as a critic and Curry’s reliance on C-SPAN and Gmail labels for story organization. The episode captures the unique chemistry between the hosts, described as a competitive teammate dynamic where Curry seeks "kudos" from Dvorak for high-impact clips. They address the "crackpot" moniker as a strategic shield against government scrutiny and discuss the open-source contributions of the No Agenda Wiki and artists like Paul T. The session concludes with a look at global donor demographics, the refusal to sell naming rights, and a teaser for an upcoming investigation into the global oil and arms pipeline. ## Chapters Each chapter's transcript is at its own link. The whole transcript is at https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/transcript.md. ### 1. No Agenda Episode 425 Introduction and Retrospective Setup (0:00–4:03) Adam Curry and John C. Dvorak introduce episode 425 of the No Agenda Show, recorded on July 12, 2012. They explain that this special episode serves as a retrospective, featuring a re-broadcast of segment 200.5 from May 2010 to illustrate how the show has evolved over two years. The hosts reflect on the "noise factor" and personal changes since the original recording. Keywords: [adam curry](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/adam-curry.md), [john c. dvorak](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/john-c-dvorak.md), [no agenda](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/no-agenda.md), episode 425, [podcast history](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/podcast-history.md), [retrospective](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/retrospective.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/1.md) ### 2. No Agenda Origins and Early Broadcasting Careers (4:03–7:51) The hosts recount the early days of the show, which began in October 2007 while Adam Curry was living in London. They discuss their extensive backgrounds in mainstream media, including Curry's time at MTV and Dvorak's work in print and television. Curry reflects on being "unhirable" by mainstream outlets after his controversial comments regarding Michael Jackson's death. Keywords: [london](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/london.md), [mtv](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/mtv.md), [michael jackson](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/michael-jackson.md), [cftc](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/cftc.md), [radio history](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/radio-history.md), [podcasting origins](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/podcasting-origins.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/2.md) ### 3. CNET Pilots and First Meeting in 1993 (7:52–12:17) Adam Curry and John C. Dvorak describe their first meeting in 1993 during the filming of CNET television pilots. They recall working with Halsey Minor and Kevin Wendell on a McLaughlin Group-style roundtable format that never launched. Curry reveals he declined a full-time offer from CNET that included two million shares of stock, choosing to stay at MTV instead. Keywords: [cnet](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/cnet.md), [halsey minor](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/halsey-minor.md), kevin wendell, gina st. john, [san francisco](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/san-francisco.md), [mclaughlin group](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/mclaughlin-group.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/3.md) ### 4. Evolution of the No Agenda Conversational Format (12:18–16:48) The hosts analyze the transition of No Agenda from a casual Friday conversation about the Financial Times to a structured deconstruction of news. Dvorak shares an anecdote about taking a career guidance personality test (MMPI) that identified his ideal profession as a "critic." They emphasize that the show's chemistry relies on their complementary life experiences and natural cynicism. Keywords: [financial times](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/financial-times.md), [cynicism](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/cynicism.md), mmpi test, personality inventory, career guidance, conversational radio [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/4.md) ### 5. Radio Craft and the Importance of Sound Quality (16:48–22:47) The discussion shifts to the technical aspects of radio production and the "theater of the mind." Dvorak recounts his time at TechTV's Silicon Spin, where he advocated for better sound engineering, citing MIT Media Lab studies that link high-quality audio to perceived picture quality. Curry explains his use of noise gates and compression to create a professional "custom sound" despite the limitations of Skype. Keywords: [fcc license](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/fcc-license.md), high-fidelity, [noise gates](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/noise-gates.md), [skype delay](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/skype-delay.md), [theater of the mind](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/theater-of-the-mind.md), [sound engineering](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/sound-engineering.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/5.md) ### 6. Family Guy Parody and the "In the Morning" Catchphrase (22:48–27:43) The hosts explain how the "In the Morning" catchphrase and the show's mock-radio style were inspired by a Family Guy episode featuring "Weenie and the Butt." They play a clip from the show that parodies the vacuous "Morning Zoo" radio format of the 1980s and 90s. This parody became a foundational element of No Agenda's identity and pacing. Keywords: [family guy](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/family-guy.md), [weenie and the butt](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/weenie-and-the-butt.md), [morning zoo](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/morning-zoo.md), [radio parody](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/radio-parody.md), [catchphrases](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/catchphrases.md), [stewie griffin](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/stewie-griffin.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/6.md) ### 7. Media Deconstruction and the Value for Value Model (27:43–32:23) Curry and Dvorak discuss their transition into serious media deconstruction, noting that they provide a service for people who lack the time to investigate news deeply. They argue that mainstream media often ignores critical connections in stories. They reflect on how the audience began to drive the show's direction toward unveiling media deception. Keywords: [mainstream media](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/mainstream-media.md), [goldman sachs](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/goldman-sachs.md), [media mockery](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/media-mockery.md), information gathering, [audience feedback](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/audience-feedback.md), [value for value](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/value-for-value.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/7.md) ### 8. Show Preparation and C-SPAN as Entertainment (32:22–38:08) The hosts detail their rigorous show preparation routines, which involve monitoring C-SPAN, CNN, and MSNBC. Curry describes using Gmail labels to organize story leads, while Dvorak highlights C-SPAN's "Book TV" as a superior source of long-form intellectual discussion. They admit to occasionally texting each other to tune into specific live broadcasts simultaneously. Keywords: [c-span](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/c-span.md), [book tv](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/book-tv.md), gmail labels, research methods, [media monitoring](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/media-monitoring.md), news analysis [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/8.md) ### 9. Public Broadcasting Model and the Rejection of Advertising (38:08–45:02) The hosts examine the financial model of No Agenda, comparing it to the direct support systems of PBS and NPR. They play a clip of an NPR executive admitting that "underwriting" is essentially advertising. Curry and Dvorak explain their decision to avoid advertisers to maintain editorial independence and prevent corporate influence from companies like Monsanto or Archer Daniels Midland. Keywords: [pbs](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/pbs.md), [npr](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/npr.md), [paypal](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/paypal.md), [donations](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/donations.md), [corporate underwriting](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/corporate-underwriting.md), [monsanto](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/monsanto.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/9.md) ### 10. Psychological Hurdles of the Donation Model (45:02–50:15) Curry and Dvorak discuss the psychological difficulty of asking listeners for money, which some family members initially characterized as "begging." They compare their approach to the "church model" or buying a novel, where the content is supported directly by the user without interruptions. They assert that this model creates a closer, more honest connection with the audience. Keywords: [dvr](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/dvr.md), [commercial breaks](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/commercial-breaks.md), [begging](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/begging.md), [church model](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/church-model.md), [marketing](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/marketing.md), podcasting revenue [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/10.md) ### 11. Public Service and Giving Listeners an "Edge" (50:16–55:23) Dvorak explains his philosophy of providing a "value proposition" by giving listeners an information edge over their peers, similar to his old PC Magazine columns. Curry views the show as his true calling after years of "counting down the hits" in mainstream radio. They conclude that while the show is entertaining, its primary goal is to enrich the lives of the audience with unique perspectives. Keywords: [public service](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/public-service.md), [pc magazine](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/pc-magazine.md), career advancement, [entertainment](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/entertainment.md), information edge, life enrichment [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/11.md) ### 12. Hookers and Blow, The Crackpot Shield (55:24–59:25) The hosts address listener questions about their "hookers and blow" jokes and the "crackpot" moniker. Curry defends the sex industry based on his upbringing in Amsterdam, while Dvorak explains that being labeled a "crackpot" serves as a protective shield against government scrutiny. They embrace the "Crackpot and Buzzkill" titles as a way to stay "below the radar." Keywords: [hookers and blow](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/hookers-and-blow.md), [amsterdam](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/amsterdam.md), [conspiracy theorist](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/conspiracy-theorist.md), [crackpot](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/crackpot.md), [buzzkill](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/buzzkill.md), [nsa](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/nsa.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/12.md) ### 13. Open Source Art and the No Agenda Wiki (59:25–1:03:43) The hosts discuss the open-source nature of the show, where listeners contribute artwork, jingles, and music. They highlight the website noagendaart.com and the work of artists like Paul T and Randy Asher. They explain their process for selecting show titles based on SEO results and credit the community for adding "dimensionality" to the podcast through visual art. Keywords: [noagendaart.com](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/noagendaart-com.md), [seo](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/seo.md), [jingles](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/jingles.md), [open source](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/open-source.md), [creative commons](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/creative-commons.md), [fan art](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/fan-art.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/13.md) ### 14. Relocation to Texas and Financial Independence (1:03:44–1:08:31) Adam Curry reflects on his move from California to Texas, a decision driven by the high cost of living and state taxes. He explains that he now lives solely off the "Value for Value" support from No Agenda producers. The hosts discuss how being in different geographic locations (Texas and Washington) benefits the show's cultural perspective. Keywords: [texas](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/texas.md), [california](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/california.md), [austin](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/austin.md), [income tax](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/income-tax.md), [hot pockets tour](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/hot-pockets-tour.md), [financial planning](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/financial-planning.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/14.md) ### 15. No Agenda News Network and Modern Show Prep (1:08:31–1:14:40) The hosts discuss the growth of the No Agenda News Network (NANN), where producers from around the world submit story leads. Curry notes that the show's length has increased to five hours per week to accommodate more in-depth analysis. They also touch on the importance of high-quality show notes and the role of the audience in identifying global management trends. Keywords: [no agenda news network](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/no-agenda-news-network.md), [twitter](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/twitter.md), [itunes](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/itunes.md), [show notes](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/show-notes.md), research tools, [global audience](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/global-audience.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/15.md) ### 16. Chat Room Dynamics and Failed Initiatives (1:14:43–1:18:29) Dvorak admits to being "a dick" about the chat room, viewing it as a distraction, while Curry appreciates it as a "Greek chorus" for instant feedback. They mention past failed efforts like "Nap for Humanity" and the introduction of the "Red Book." They also thank the volunteer moderators and stream technicians who keep the live broadcast running. Keywords: [chat room](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/chat-room.md), [nap for humanity](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/nap-for-humanity.md), [red book](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/red-book.md), [moderation](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/moderation.md), [live streaming](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/live-streaming.md), feedback loops [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/16.md) ### 17. Rejection of a Dedicated Tech Podcast (1:18:30–1:22:53) In response to a listener request for a tech-only show, the hosts explain why they avoid the format. Dvorak argues that tech news is often repetitive and boring, while Curry notes that he doesn't want to compete with Dvorak's appearances on the TWiT network. The segment ends with Curry discussing his upcoming wedding in Holland and his wife Mickey's fondness for Dvorak. Keywords: [twit](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/twit.md), [tech podcast](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/tech-podcast.md), [intel](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/intel.md), [molly wood](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/molly-wood.md), [mickey curry](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/mickey-curry.md), wedding planning [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/17.md) ### 18. Global Donor Demographics and Homeschooling (1:22:53–1:28:07) The hosts review the geographic distribution of their donors, noting high support from Australia, Canada, and the UK. Dvorak answers a personal question about homeschooling his children, stating he has no regrets as his daughter became a straight-A student. They also have a technical exchange about Dvorak's refusal to wear headphones during broadcasts, a habit he picked up from radio host Bill Good. Keywords: [australia](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/australia.md), [canada](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/canada.md), [netherlands](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/netherlands.md), [homeschooling](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/homeschooling.md), bill good, [headphones](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/headphones.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/18.md) ### 19. Second Half Topics and Naming Rights (1:28:07–1:33:34) The hosts address "second half of the show" topics like 9-11 and UFOs, with Dvorak admitting he is more open to questions regarding World Trade Center 7. They firmly reject the idea of selling naming rights or accepting large corporate donations, asserting that the show's independence is more valuable than a $100,000 contract that would require editorial compromise. Keywords: [9-11](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/9-11.md), [ufo](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/ufo.md), [stargate](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/stargate.md), [monsanto](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/monsanto.md), [naming rights](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/naming-rights.md), [conspiracy theories](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/conspiracy-theories.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/19.md) ### 20. Knighthoods and the Church Model of Marketing (1:33:34–1:40:09) Dvorak takes credit for the "Knighthood" promotion, explaining it as a way to grant American peerage similar to the British system. He discusses his background in direct marketing and his fascination with how churches and PBS secure funding. They speculate on how the upcoming football season might affect live stream listenership and emphasize that the show is "doing fine" but still requires constant support. Keywords: [knighthoods](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/knighthoods.md), [marketing](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/marketing.md), [pbs](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/pbs.md), football season, [live stream](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/live-stream.md), [peerage](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/peerage.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/20.md) ### 21. Teammate Dynamics and the "Kudo" System (1:40:09–1:44:36) The hosts describe their on-air relationship as a competitive teammate dynamic rather than a father-son bond. Curry admits he seeks praise from Dvorak for finding good clips, while Dvorak explains his "kudo" system for acknowledging when Curry "scores a goal" with a superior take. They discuss how this internal competition keeps the show's energy high. Keywords: [competition](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/competition.md), teammates, praise, show flow, interpersonal dynamics, podcasting chemistry [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/21.md) ### 22. International Listener Stats and Subscription Issues (1:44:37–1:50:35) Dvorak presents data on international listeners, revealing that Australia is the second-largest source of donations after the US. They note anomalies, such as Japan providing high donation amounts despite low listener counts, and the "cheap" nature of Danish listeners. They also discuss technical issues with PayPal that cause legitimate subscribers to be dropped from the system. Keywords: [australia](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/australia.md), [japan](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/japan.md), [denmark](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/denmark.md), [paypal](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/paypal.md), [subscribers](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/subscribers.md), global reach [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/22.md) ### 23. Show Prep Logistics and Production Costs (1:50:35–1:55:17) The hosts contrast their preparation styles: Dvorak collects clips and articles spontaneously, often using an H2 recorder while watching movies, while Curry builds a more structured outline. They address a question about production costs, arguing that "time is money" and the "Value for Value" model accounts for the hours spent on research and studio setup. Keywords: [h2 recorder](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/h2-recorder.md), [show prep](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/show-prep.md), [production costs](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/production-costs.md), [value for value](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/value-for-value.md), [time management](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/time-management.md), [research](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/research.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/23.md) ### 24. Technical Tools and Mobile Access (1:55:18–1:59:24) Adam Curry discusses the software he uses for jingles, specifically "Soundbyte" by Black Cat Software, which emulates an old-school radio cart machine. They also provide advice for listeners trying to access the show on older mobile devices like the Nokia E71 and BlackBerry, noting that new podcasting apps are slowly becoming available for those platforms. Keywords: [soundbyte](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/soundbyte.md), [nokia e71](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/nokia-e71.md), [blackberry](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/blackberry.md), [ipad](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/ipad.md), cart machine, podcasting apps [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/24.md) ### 25. Future of No Agenda and Independent Media (1:59:25–2:04:06) The hosts discuss the future of the show, asserting that the declining quality of mainstream media and government transparency provides endless material. They compare their "below the radar" status to Alex Jones, whom they view as a "canary in the cage" for potential government crackdowns. They reiterate their commitment to a guest-free format to maintain the "coffee shop" atmosphere. Keywords: hill and knolton, [alex jones](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/alex-jones.md), [obama administration](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/obama-administration.md), [independent media](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/independent-media.md), [censorship](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/censorship.md), [global warming](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/global-warming.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/25.md) ### 26. Outro and Pipeline Special Teaser (2:04:07–2:10:16) Adam Curry and John C. Dvorak conclude the episode by teasing a future "pipeline special" focusing on the intersection of oil, drugs, and arms. Curry signs off to head to his wedding in Holland, and the hosts exchange final "In the Morning" greetings. The segment ends with a reminder of the show's donation URL. Keywords: [pipelines](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/pipelines.md), [oil](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/oil.md), [drugs](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/drugs.md), arms, [wedding](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/wedding.md), [amsterdam](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/amsterdam.md) [Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/425-understanding-no-agenda/chapter/26.md) - [Previous episode](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/424-internet-governance.md) - [Next episode](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/426-the-pipeline-report.md) --- This is the markdown version of a page on The No Agenda Show for AI agents. 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