# Furries Forever

> From secret podium crates in Normandy to the rise of the furry subculture at college graduations, the mechanisms of public perception and corporate synergy are laid bare.

- **Show:** [The No Agenda Show](https://search.noagendashow.net/index.md)
- **Episode:** 104
- **Published:** 2009-06-14
- **Length:** 1h 5m
- **Topics:** Sarkozy crate, [Swine flu](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/swine-flu.md), [UKIP](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/ukip.md), [Furries](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/furries.md), Zyprexa, [Cascadia](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/cascadia.md), NYSE glitch
- **Web page:** https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever

## About this episode

French President Nicolas Sarkozy used a hidden apple crate to match the height of Barack Obama during a Normandy press event, highlighting the curated nature of international diplomacy. This visual manipulation coincides with a computer glitch at the New York Stock Exchange that triggered widespread skepticism regarding the reliability of automated trading systems. Meanwhile, former inmate Dawood Yadullah filed a lawsuit in New York after a medication error resulted in a 55-hour medical emergency.

Nigel Farage and the UK Independence Party secured major gains in the European Parliament elections as the Labour Party under Gordon Brown faced a historic defeat. In the United States, Baxter International accelerated production of a swine flu vaccine following World Health Organization Director-General Margaret Chan's controversial decision to redefine pandemic criteria based on geographic spread rather than severity. Eli Lilly and Co. also faced scrutiny for the off-label marketing of Zyprexa to elderly patients despite known risks. In the Pacific Northwest, the State of Jefferson and Cascadia secession movements gained traction as Paul Starobin explored regional autonomy in the Wall Street Journal.

Evergreen State College commencement featured a corporate poet and attendees in full panda and bunny costumes as the furry subculture entered the academic mainstream. Adam Curry and John C. Dvorak examine the technical mastery of broadcasters like Tom Brokaw and Forrest Sawyer while testing the comfort of HEMA-branded underwear for the value-for-value funding model. The program concludes with a look at Port Angeles, Washington, where car washing now carries a thousand-dollar fine.

## Chapters

Each chapter's transcript is at its own link. The whole transcript is at https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/transcript.md.

### 1. Oatmeal Preparation, Birch Syrup, and Agave Sugar (0:01–3:18)

A discussion regarding breakfast habits details the preparation of oatmeal using water and blueberries as a substitute for milk and sugar. The conversation compares the flavor profiles of Vermont maple syrup, Alaskan birch syrup, and agave sugar derived from tequila plants. One participant describes birch syrup as having a milder taste similar to birch beer, while agave is noted for its health benefits and mild sweetness.

Keywords: [oatmeal](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/oatmeal.md), birch syrup, [maple syrup](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/maple-syrup.md), agave sugar, [vermont](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/vermont.md), [alaska](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/alaska.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/1.md)

### 2. Absinthe Distribution, San Francisco Loft Living (3:20–4:06)

A participant mentions moving into a new loft in San Francisco located in the same building as the first company legally authorized to distribute absinthe in the United States. Despite the proximity to the distributor, the speaker expresses a lack of interest in the beverage, noting they are not a frequent drinker.

Keywords: [absinthe](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/absinthe.md), [san francisco](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/san-francisco.md), loft, legal distribution, [alcohol](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/alcohol.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/2.md)

### 3. IRC Connectivity Issues, No Agenda Chat (4:08–5:00)

Technical difficulties arise as one participant attempts to log into the No Agenda IRC channel on freenode. The hosts direct listeners to use the web client at noagendachat.com for a more reliable connection to the live stream. Bandwidth constraints are cited as a reason for avoiding the web client during the broadcast.

Keywords: [irc](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/irc.md), noagendachat.com, [technical difficulties](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/technical-difficulties.md), [live stream](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/live-stream.md), [freenode](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/freenode.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/3.md)

### 4. Dawood Yadullah, Lawsuit Over 55-Hour Erection (5:01–7:34)

Former prison inmate Dawood Yadullah is suing a nurse in New York after suffering a 55-hour erection caused by a 25% increase in his antipsychotic medication dosage. Yadullah claims he was forced to wait two days before being transported from prison to a hospital, resulting in irreparable injury. The story prompts a discussion about pharmaceutical side effects and the common four-hour warning found in Cialis and Viagra commercials.

Keywords: dawood yadullah, [lawsuit](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/lawsuit.md), new york prison, antipsychotic medication, priapism

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/4.md)

### 5. Nicolas Sarkozy, Barack Obama Height Comparison (7:35–9:05)

A photograph from the Times Online captures French President Nicolas Sarkozy standing on an apple crate at a podium next to President Barack Obama during an event in Normandy. The image highlights the height difference between the two leaders, with Obama standing at approximately 6'2" and Sarkozy being significantly shorter. The hosts note the use of barriers at the podium designed to hide the crate from public view.

Keywords: [nicolas sarkozy](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/nicolas-sarkozy.md), [barack obama](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/barack-obama.md), [normandy](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/normandy.md), [height](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/height.md), [podium](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/podium.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/5.md)

### 6. New York Stock Exchange, Opening Bell Glitch (9:05–10:46)

A computer glitch occurred at the opening of the New York Stock Exchange on a Friday, causing suspicion regarding the reliability of automated trading systems. Media coverage on CNBC reflected a sense of alarm among financial analysts. The hosts express skepticism toward official explanations that dismiss such events as mere technical errors.

Keywords: [nyse](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/nyse.md), [computer glitch](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/computer-glitch.md), [cnbc](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/cnbc.md), trading systems, [stock market](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/stock-market.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/6.md)

### 7. State of Jefferson, Cascadia Secession Movements (9:53–13:28)

The Wall Street Journal published an article by Paul Starobin titled "Divided We Stand," exploring the potential for breaking California into three states or forming new regional republics. The discussion highlights the "State of Jefferson" movement in Northern California and Southern Oregon, as well as the "Cascadia" concept linking Seattle, Portland, and Vancouver. These movements are characterized as a response to the federal government's reach for increased power.

Keywords: [state of jefferson](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/state-of-jefferson.md), [cascadia](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/cascadia.md), [secession](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/secession.md), [wall street journal](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/wall-street-journal.md), paul starobin

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/7.md)

### 8. Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, Local Access Television (13:29–14:22)

A program featuring Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth aired on a local access cable channel, signaling a rise in public dissent and dissatisfaction. One host observes that such content is beginning to "creep through" to mainstream cable audiences despite the heavy commercialization of basic cable programming.

Keywords: [9/11 truth](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/9-11-truth.md), architects and engineers, [comcast](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/comcast.md), local access, [dissent](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/dissent.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/8.md)

### 9. Teletubbies Controversy, Boohbah TV Show (14:23–17:03)

A discussion regarding children's television covers the past controversy surrounding the character Tinky Winky and claims of the Teletubbies being gay. The conversation shifts to a follow-up show called "Boohbah," created by some of the same producers, which features characters with unusual physical designs. The hosts jokingly attempt to link producer Simon Cowell to the franchise to categorize the segment as "real news."

Keywords: teletubbies, boohbah, [simon cowell](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/simon-cowell.md), tinky winky, [children's television](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/children-s-television.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/9.md)

### 10. European Parliament Elections, UKIP Gains (17:04–19:37)

The UK Independence Party (UKIP), led by Nigel Farage, saw significant gains in the European Parliament elections while the Labour Party under Gordon Brown performed poorly. There is ongoing legal and political pressure in the United Kingdom to force a public vote on the Lisbon Treaty. The hosts also mention Ireland's resistance to the treaty and the general desensitization of the public to bureaucratic maneuvers.

Keywords: [ukip](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/ukip.md), [nigel farage](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/nigel-farage.md), [european parliament](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/european-parliament.md), [lisbon treaty](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/lisbon-treaty.md), [gordon brown](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/gordon-brown.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/10.md)

### 11. Iranian Election Coverage, CNN Fail (18:42–20:28)

The hosts briefly address the "CNN fail" regarding the coverage of the Iranian elections, where Mahmoud Ahmadinejad reportedly won by a 50% margin. One host expresses apathy toward the international news cycle, suggesting that the results were widely expected to be a sham.

Keywords: [iran](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/iran.md), [mahmoud ahmadinejad](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/mahmoud-ahmadinejad.md), [election](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/election.md), [cnn](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/cnn.md), [media coverage](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/media-coverage.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/11.md)

### 12. John Titor, Time Travel Urban Legends (19:39–22:06)

A story from the "Coast to Coast AM" radio show involves a man claiming to be a time traveler from the year 2036 visiting his mother. The hosts discuss the John Titor legend and the nature of paranormal talk radio. They critique the aesthetic of the John Titor website, comparing it to early internet designs with low-quality graphics.

Keywords: john titor, [time travel](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/time-travel.md), [coast to coast am](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/coast-to-coast-am.md), [george noory](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/george-noory.md), [urban legend](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/urban-legend.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/12.md)

### 13. Evergreen State College, American Commencement Traditions (22:07–24:35)

A host describes attending the commencement ceremony for his son at Evergreen State College, noting that such elaborate ceremonies are a uniquely American tradition. The discussion compares US graduation customs, involving caps, gowns, and valedictorian speeches, to the more subdued degree-granting processes in Europe.

Keywords: [evergreen state college](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/evergreen-state-college.md), [commencement](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/commencement.md), [graduation](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/graduation.md), [traditions](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/traditions.md), academic regalia

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/13.md)

### 14. Obama Worship, Corporate Poet at Graduation (24:36–27:15)

During the Evergreen State College graduation, a speaker reportedly urged students to "help Obama," framing the presidency as a cause for the youth to support. The keynote speaker, David Whyte, a "corporate poet," was introduced with a degree in "zoology," which the hosts mock for its mispronunciation and perceived lack of academic rigor.

Keywords: [barack obama](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/barack-obama.md), [evergreen state college](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/evergreen-state-college.md), david whyte, corporate poet, [commencement speech](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/commencement-speech.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/14.md)

### 15. Stephen Colbert in Iraq, Zoology Pronunciation (27:16–29:21)

Stephen Colbert traveled to Iraq to film episodes of "The Colbert Report" for US troops, featuring an interview with the Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister. The hosts notice that the official also mispronounced "zoology" while discussing his background in probability. They debate the correct pronunciation of the field, noting that "zoology" is often corrected to "zo-ology" in academic settings.

Keywords: [stephen colbert](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/stephen-colbert.md), [iraq](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/iraq.md), [zoology](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/zoology.md), [probability](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/probability.md), [jon stewart](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/jon-stewart.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/15.md)

### 16. European Graduation Regalia, University of Heidelberg (29:21–30:45)

A brief examination of graduation photos from the University of Heidelberg reveals that some European universities do use caps and gowns, though they often feature colorful sashes instead of the standard American style. The hosts clarify that while the attire is similar, the cultural atmosphere and speeches differ from American commencements.

Keywords: university of heidelberg, [graduation](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/graduation.md), [germany](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/germany.md), academic dress, [sashes](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/sashes.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/16.md)

### 17. Furry Subculture, Real-Life Animal Costumes (30:07–33:54)

The hosts discuss the presence of "furries" at the Evergreen State College commencement, including individuals dressed as a panda and a bunny. They explore the definition of the furry subculture as a lifestyle involving animal personas and costumes. An anecdote is shared about a school that allegedly isolated furries into a club only to identify and expel them.

Keywords: [furries](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/furries.md), [subculture](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/subculture.md), [evergreen state college](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/evergreen-state-college.md), [costumes](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/costumes.md), [lifestyle](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/lifestyle.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/17.md)

### 18. Loft Architecture, Sex Swing Discussion (33:10–35:26)

A discussion about the architectural features of San Francisco lofts, specifically 18-foot ceilings and exposed pipes, leads to a tangent about sex swings. The hosts joke about the practicalities of hanging such devices from industrial piping and search for prices online, finding a "bungee sex swing" for $69.

Keywords: loft, [architecture](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/architecture.md), sex swing, [interior design](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/interior-design.md), [san francisco](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/san-francisco.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/18.md)

### 19. Zyprexa Side Effects, Eli Lilly Off-Label Marketing (35:28–41:25)

Eli Lilly and Co. faced scrutiny for urging doctors to prescribe the antipsychotic drug Zyprexa to elderly patients with dementia, despite evidence that the drug was ineffective and increased the risk of death. Zyprexa, which generates billions in annual sales, is officially approved for schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. The hosts criticize the pharmaceutical industry for "off-label" promotion and the widespread use of mood-stabilizing drugs like lithium and Ritalin.

Keywords: zyprexa, [eli lilly](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/eli-lilly.md), [dementia](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/dementia.md), [bipolar disorder](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/bipolar-disorder.md), antipsychotics

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/19.md)

### 20. Baxter International, Swine Flu Vaccine Production (41:26–43:36)

Baxter International announced full-scale production of a swine flu vaccine, which is expected to be commercially available in July. The announcement followed the World Health Organization's declaration of a global pandemic. The hosts revisit Baxter's history, including a past incident where bird flu was accidentally mixed with seasonal flu vaccines, and note the company's headquarters in Illinois.

Keywords: [baxter international](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/baxter-international.md), [swine flu](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/swine-flu.md), [h1n1](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/h1n1.md), [vaccine](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/vaccine.md), [world health organization](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/world-health-organization.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/20.md)

### 21. Margaret Chan, WHO Pandemic Definitions (43:39–48:09)

World Health Organization Director-General Margaret Chan appeared in interviews to explain the new definition of a pandemic, which focuses on geographic spread rather than severity. Chan expressed concern about the potential for H1N1 (swine flu) and H5N1 (bird flu) to "bump into each other" and mutate. The hosts suggest that pharmaceutical companies benefit financially from the public anxiety surrounding these health declarations.

Keywords: [margaret chan](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/margaret-chan.md), [world health organization](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/world-health-organization.md), [pandemic](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/pandemic.md), [h1n1](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/h1n1.md), [bird flu](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/bird-flu.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/21.md)

### 22. Taylor Swift, NBC Universal Corporate Synergy (48:09–49:39)

A listener email outlines the corporate connections behind Taylor Swift's media presence, noting that her music is distributed by Universal Music Group, owned by Vivendi. Because Vivendi sold Universal Studios to NBC, the network has a vested interest in promoting Swift through interviews and features. The hosts discuss how this "compartmentalized organism" of corporate synergy functions without explicit coordination.

Keywords: [taylor swift](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/taylor-swift.md), [nbc universal](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/nbc-universal.md), vivendi, corporate synergy, [music industry](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/music-industry.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/22.md)

### 23. 60 Minutes, Television Production Padding (49:40–52:05)

The hosts analyze the production of "60 Minutes," noting the use of "fluff pieces" to fill the 46 minutes of actual programming required per hour. They explain technical aspects of broadcasting, such as speeding up or slowing down the credit roll to act as a buffer to ensure the show hits commercial breaks exactly on time.

Keywords: [60 minutes](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/60-minutes.md), [television production](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/television-production.md), commercial pods, credit roll, padding

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/23.md)

### 24. Tom Brokaw, MSNBC Launch Professionalism (52:06–55:17)

A host recounts being in the control room during the launch of MSNBC, witnessing Tom Brokaw interview President Bill Clinton. The story emphasizes Brokaw's skill in multitasking, as he managed a complex dialogue with the President while simultaneously receiving timing cues and instructions through his IFB (internal feedback) earpiece.

Keywords: [tom brokaw](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/tom-brokaw.md), [msnbc](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/msnbc.md), [bill clinton](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/bill-clinton.md), [live television](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/live-television.md), [ifb](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/ifb.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/24.md)

### 25. Forrest Sawyer, Broadcast Journalism Excellence (55:19–58:48)

Forrest Sawyer is praised by television crews as one of the most technically proficient anchors in the industry, known for his ability to handle complex live remotes without errors. Despite his reputation for being "slick" and impeccable with timing, Sawyer eventually left network news to pursue academic and new media projects. The hosts compare his skills to those of a "flying goalie" who can be inserted into any difficult broadcast situation.

Keywords: forrest sawyer, [abc news](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/abc-news.md), [ifb](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/ifb.md), [broadcast journalism](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/broadcast-journalism.md), [nightline](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/nightline.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/25.md)

### 26. Etymology of Blurb, Publicity vs News (57:53–1:00:39)

The term "blurb" was coined in 1914 by Gillette Burgess to describe short publicity notices found on book jackets. The hosts discuss the definition of the word as a transitive verb and its distinction from hard news, noting its primary function in PR and marketing. They suggest "blurbing" is a precursor to the modern concept of "blogging."

Keywords: blurb, gillette burgess, [etymology](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/etymology.md), [publicity](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/publicity.md), [marketing](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/marketing.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/26.md)

### 27. Value-for-Value Model, HEMA Underwear Prototypes (1:00:39–1:03:51)

The hosts discuss the "No Agenda" funding model, which relies on direct listener donations rather than traditional advertising. They explore the idea of "premiums" for donors, including a prototype for HEMA-branded underwear. Concerns are raised about the comfort of embroidery on the waistband, leading to a plan to test different styles of jockey shorts and surfer-style pant legs.

Keywords: [value-for-value](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/value-for-value.md), [donations](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/donations.md), [hema](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/hema.md), [underwear](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/underwear.md), [embroidery](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/embroidery.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/27.md)

### 28. PBS Biz Kids, Car Washing Fines in Cascadia (1:03:52–1:05:27)

The hosts preview upcoming topics, including a segment on PBS's "Biz Kids" that they find offensive and a new regulation in Port Angeles, Washington. Residents can now be fined $1,000 for washing their cars on the street, as the government asserts ownership over all water runoff. The show concludes with a sign-off from "Gitmo Nation West" and the "Pacific Northwest."

Keywords: [pbs](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/pbs.md), biz kids, [port angeles](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/port-angeles.md), [water rights](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/water-rights.md), [cascadia](https://search.noagendashow.net/topic/cascadia.md)

[Chapter transcript](https://search.noagendashow.net/episode/104-furries-forever/chapter/28.md)

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